Yeah, we totally got screwed during until the PS2 generation. TBH, I didn't realized the problem until the 50/60hz selector appeared in some European PS2 releases.
It was then that I realized the difference and proceeded to do some comparisons between different releases of games I loved. It opened my eye and I did my best to keep up with how good the conversions were. Which is why I don't have much problem with late PS2 games like FFXII, KH2, VP2 or even Persona 4 (published by SE in Europe), where they AT LEAST converted the ratio (no 'cinemascope'). I can still go back for some games, but I wouldn't ever play some really bad cases like FFX PAL. It's also the main reason I didn't buy any PS1 classics on my (main) European account, instead going for US or JP releases. Yea, we PAL territory gamers got screwed right up until the current gen. Recently I've been making a big effort to get all of the retro games in my (pretty huge) collection running in 60Hz with the best available video quality.
Pikmin and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat launched in December 2008 and were followed throughout 2009 by Mario Tennis GC. Metroid Prime Iso Download Pal Ntsc.
If any other (overly compulsive) people are considering the same thing, I have some information that might be of use to you. NES: In the case of the NES, the NTSC systems have a higher CPU clock frequency (1.789773 MHz) than PAL systems (1.662607 MHz). So NTSC NES Consoles simply run at 60Hz whilst PAL consoles run at 50Hz, regardless of whether the game being played is PAL or NTSC.
Thus disabling the lockout chip on the PAL NES won't let it play NTSC games at 60Hz, however this does mean that you can simply get an NTSC console and disable the lockout chip and it will play all your PAL games at 60Hz. The highest video output quality for the NES is (sadly) composite, the PPU chip in the NES is only capable of composite so it cannot be modded on its own to output anything better, so unless you are obsessed with perfection, just hook it up with composite. If you ARE obsessed, then you can acquire a PPU chip from a Nintendo Playchoice-10 arcade machine board and mod that into a NES to get beautiful RGB output. Or you can buy an even more outrageously expensive and rare Famicom Titler which is a special Famicom system that has an RGB capable PPU.
I THINK there may be a few (not many) NES games where they actually sped up the audio on PAL copies of games to compensate for 50Hz slowdown, in those cases the audio will sound messed up on an NTSC console and you should get an NTSC copy of the game. SNES: The SNES is easily the most convenient console for PAL gamers. The PAL console can be easily modded to disable region lockout and play games in 60Hz. Modern mods can now play any NTSC game, even games containing the difficult SA-1 chip (Super Mario RPG). Vibe Confessions Rapidshare Free. However, a few games (most notably Rares games) are actually optimised to run faster on PAL consoles to compensate for 50Hz. It was nice of devs to take the time to ensure PAL games weren't playing inferior versions of games, ironically though this just means that they are now the only truly inferior versions of the games.
Despite the fact that the games were sped up to run at the same speed as 60Hz, they were still only running in 50Hz, so what that means is that they sacrifice framerate over the NTSC 60Hz originals in order to run at the same speed. And when you run them in 60Hz mode, they are at the wrong speed because they were already sped up. You're gonna wanna just go ahead and replace those games with NTSC copies, fortunately it isn't many. The PAL SNES outputs perfect RGB natively with a Nintendo RGB Scart cable, so just hook it up with one of those and enjoy the best quality your SNES can give you.
Unfortunately therein lies the problem - best quality your SNES can give you - you see there are actually 4 different revisions of the SNES, each with differing video quality. The later manufactured SNES consoles had a hardware revision where the two PPU chips and the CPU chip were all incorporated into one chip. This is called the 1CHIP SNES and it has much improved video output to older consoles. The SNES 2/Mini/Jr. Also uses the 1CHIP board and actually gives very slightly better quality than the original 1CHIP consoles, making it the best available choice.
Couple of things to note though. 1CHIP SNES's are a bit more difficult to do a 50/60Hz mod on. SNES 2/Mini/Jr consoles don't have native RGB output like the original console does, so they need to be modded to add it. N64: PALand got especially screwed with the N64. Firstly, theres no way to 50/60Hz mod the N64 (without serious effort). Secondly, PAL N64 games still run at 50Hz on NTSC consoles since whether the game runs in 50Hz or 60Hz is software based in the N64. And finally, whilst no N64 model natively outputs RGB, only the (later) NTSC N64s and very early french ones can be modded to do so (without serious effort).
Far more games on the N64 were optimised for PAL territories on the N64 (sped up to run at the same speed as their 60Hz NTSC equivalents at the sacrifice of framerate). Some people will argue that these PAL optimised N64 games are actually superior to the NTSC counterparts because the developers also (sometimes) took the time to make use of the increased resolution in the PAL format. Quick explanation; the PAL video standard has a slightly higher resolution than NTSC (576 vs. Lego My Style Preschool Downloadable Worksheets here.
480) at the cost of a lower refresh rate (50Hz vs. So when developers actually made use of the extra resolution of the PAL standard it resulted in PAL games that ran at the same speed as NTSC versions, with a slightly worse framerate but at a slightly higher resolution. Personally I'll take the framerate over a small resolution increase any day.
So with the N64 it's pretty much a case of getting an NTSC console, RGB modding it and replacing all your PAL games with NTSC ones. Being European is just so awesome.
Gamecube: Luckily, most PAL Gamecube games run in 60Hz. If you are prepared to do a little digging, you can find lists of which games don't support PAL 60Hz. It's not that many. Or you can check your games for yourself; boot up the console with the game in it whilst holding B on the controller, if it brings up a message asking if you wanna play in 50/60Hz then it supports 60Hz. If it doesn't then it doesn't support PAL60. Oh and Metroid Prime 2 ONLY supports PAL60, it's the only GC game that does (as far as I know).
Oh but guess what! PAL GC games are still inferior.
If you have the first revision of the Gamecube (DOL-001) then you will notice it has both a digital output port and an analogue output port on the back, later revisions (DOL-101) only have analogue. Nintendo briefly sold a component cable for the cube that connected to the digital output port and gave the GC progressive scan component output.
This is the absolute best video quality a GC can give. First of all, the cable was only sold directly from Nintendo and wasn't popular at all so they pretty quickly discontinued it and removed the digital output port. To cut costs, because they knew few people would demand component video, they put the video encoder chip in the actual cable rather than the console itself. Because of these two facts, the GC component cable is VERY rare and VERY expensive. Expect to pay upwards of £70 for one if you can even find one (yes, for a cable). As for why PAL games are inferior, only NTSC games were programmed to offer progressive scan, making the component cable useless for PAL games.
However, it is possible to softmod a PAL Gamecube and, using a homebrew program called Swiss, force PAL games to output progressive scan. So for the Gamecube it's a case of replacing games that lack PAL60 support with NTSC copies and softmodding the cube to force progressive scan on PAL games and run NTSC games.
Wii: Almost every game on the Wii runs at PAL60, but there is a handful that don't support 60Hz on PAL. Of those, only 4 are notable (IMO): SSX Blur, Little King's Story, Mario Party 8 and Madworld. Get NTSC copies of those games. And the Wii component cable is readily available so no problem there. Couple of extra points to make. These retro systems look horrible on LCD and Plasma screens due to crappy scalers in TVs.
Either get an old high quality CRT for next to nothing to play these games on, or buy a very expensive upscaler like the XRGB to play them on modern TVs. Originally Posted by danielcw Games should only have bugs, if the developers tried to do something, sop I don't see how it could result in a multitude of bugs, or especially often, since most of the time everything just ran slower, and all timings were relative to each other. The list of games that were adapted for 50fps should be rather short, so the list for games which got additional bugs should be even shorter. So how many bugs can you name?Every game up until Dreamcast was forced through the 50hz process for Europe and Australia.
The timings were not relative, since some are based on frames, and some are based in realtime. For example, Link to the Past's PAL bomb countdown is the same as the NTSC version, while everything else is slowed down, meaning at least one nonessential item (a compass or dungeon map iirc) cannot be obtained. On the other hand, you have examples of games where developers take advantage of the extra processing power allowed by the reduced frames of 50hz to optimise speed in certain areas, but it's impossible for the entire game to be optimised, therefore inconsistencies remain.
I never really knew about the 50hz/60hz thing until the Gamecube came out. 50hz never really bothered me until then. A lot of the good N64 games were somewhat optimised and the music wasn't slower I think. I have never really got to play PAL SNES conversions because I played on my cousin's US SNES console when I was a kid. These days I do care a lot more about 50hz/60hz and this year I bought a pre-modded 50hz/60hz Megadrive model 1 HD graphics console to make sure I got the best experience. Originally Posted by neora The highest video output quality for the NES is (sadly) composite, the PPU chip in the NES is only capable of composite so it cannot be modded on its own to output anything better, so unless you are obsessed with perfection, just hook it up with composite.
If you ARE obsessed, then you can acquire a PPU chip from a Nintendo Playchoice-10 arcade machine board and mod that into a NES to get beautiful RGB output. Or you can buy an even more outrageously expensive and rare Famicom Titler which is a special Famicom system that has an RGB capable PPU.HDMI mod is in the works. And finally, whilst no N64 model natively outputs RGB, only the (later) NTSC N64s and very early french ones can be modded to do so (without serious effort).All N64 models can output RGB with modding these days and there is a VGA/DVI/HDMI board in the works that bypasses the analog signal and uses the raw digital output.
We actually got screwed all the way up to HDTVs, to be honest. Though a lot of the games from PS2 era got a 60hz option so it slowly got better. That said, back in the 80's and the early 90's, there was no internet (well, it wasn't something a common person would have at least), so most of us didn't know there were any difference between the regions at all. Ignorance is bliss and all that.
It wasn't until internet came along and gamers became aware of the differences, and not to mention the hacking of consoles so that they could play american and japanese games (not to mention the piracy-boom on the PS1), that we learned of the differences and started to demand equality. Thankfully the universal HDTV generation removed the gap, and the only issus left are censorship and getting games published in europe. I didn't really know until the N64 generation, when I saw my friend's Japanese copy of F-Zero X compared to my UK PAL one. Since that gen I've never bought a PAL system, and only bought PAL games when they've been properly optimised or natively support 60Hz. I've even replaced a lot of my PAL retro games with NTSC ones.
Sure, I was aware of games that didn't make it out over here, Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG being two that got a lot of hype in UK magazines only to leave us with blue balls, but as long as we got the big stuff I could deal with it. Now, though, I can identify a PAL version just by listening to the music. I'm a complete snob. Used to hang around with the crowd who'd spend £80 on an import game just to avoid the PAL version. One of the reasons why the Dreamcast got so much goodwill from the hardcore community was that it was the first console to start adding 60Hz modes to PAL games.
It just made the PS2 look bad when that came out and big games like FFX and Devil May Cry got atrocious PAL conversions. Originally Posted by IntelliHeath Seriously? I'm aware of Chrono Trigger but I didn't know about HM64 and SMRPG.Final Fantasy VII was the first FF to get a PAL release. We got three SNES Square games (Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore and Mystic Quest Legend). Tough time to be an RPG fan. Originally Posted by Burning Revolver Eh, I wouldn't say we were screwed, because it was just how TV's and consoles had to operate then, and it's not like someone intentionally made it lower in quality to stick it to us.It had to operate at 50Hz, but that didn't mean it had to be slower in 50Hz.
While it's not completely trivial, a bit of code work could have made things play at the right rate in many cases, despite running at 50Hz. That's the thing, really - there's nothing inherently wrong with 50Hz in itself, and in many cases there are advantages (higher resolution, for one thing!) - the problem is games being coded with 60Hz in mind not being adjusted to play correctly in 50Hz. Originally Posted by private400 you could say that this gen brought a eye opener with 60 hertz for us Europeans.
I recall Super Play making a big thing about it way back in the SNES era in the UK, but then they were always a magazine with a more international worldview (Import reviews, that sort of thing). Originally Posted by wazoo SSX blur is 480p on pal.Yep, and 50Hz only. Originally Posted by Scavenger HDMI mod is in the works.Yea that's what I'm waiting for now, rather than buying a P-10 chip. Originally Posted by Scavenger All N64 models can output RGB with modding these days and there is a VGA/DVI/HDMI board in the works that bypasses the analog signal and uses the raw digital output.I thought PAL N64's could only be RGB modded by taking the chip from an RGB moddable NTSC or French console? Didn't know about the VGA/DVI/HDMI board, can I get a link? As has been firmly established by now, yes, we did get screwed. Although many of us didn't realise at the time, and were happily ignorant.
I found out about this awful 50hz curse around the Saturn era, because the official Sega Saturn Magazine in the UK was written by real hardcore gamers who knew their shit and didn't give a fuck, and encouraged readers to mod their consoles for imports and add 50/60hz switches. I got mine done and lived in 60hz bliss with near-arcade perfect Capcom ports.and of course, the Dreamcast had soft-switching. The editor of the motley SSM writing crew who advocated imports and the best gaming experience? Richard Leadbetter, head of and lead writer of Digital Foundry on Eurogamer. Yes, mainly because 3rd parties and Sega were lazy.
60Hz modes were not going to be an option, at least until the mid 90s, as the vast majority of users connected via RF, and it can only accept native framerate because it thinks the console is a TV station. Consoles came packaged with RF all the way to the Saturn and Playstation, the N64 was the first console I remember being packed with AV cables instead (PSX and Saturn were later, but not at launch), and even then the RF adapter was the highest selling accessory on the N64. Nintendo first party had a fair bit of effort put in to 50Hz conversions for a number of years. Super Mario Bros 1, 2, 3, Zeldas, Metroid, Kirby, all had speed adjusted somewhat and black bars minimised, in fact around 90% of their NES, SNES and N64 games were PAL adjusted to some degree. However, Capcom, Konami, EA etc just dumped their 60Hz roms on carts, so they ran slower and with fat borders. And Sega carts were mostly universal, so by their nature they had the same problems.
Sega gets praise for the Dreamcast, but before that they were far worse than Nintendo for PAL conversions. Sony were the worst of all, PS1 and PS2 standard resolutions led to the worst black bars of any consoles, all the way to the death of the PS2 it was terrible PAL conversions most of the time, with a few games offering a 60Hz mode (mostly Namco). But Sony published titles (all Square games for example) that were not developed in Europe had appalling PAL conversions. So the answer is yes. Originally Posted by Farrow I grew up in PAL land. NTSC seems like it's been sped up to me, because I'm used to it being slower:PYeah, same. My first game that I got was Alex Kidd in Miracle World on the Sega Master System.
I still remember the main theme, and so on. I downloaded the title from xbla not too long ago and in the sound options you can choose between Europe, USA, music. Europe is what I know and remember (even though I'm in Australia we both share it), switching it to US it was almost like a Benny Hill skit. Just so sped up! So strange now to think that it isn't actually sped up, but what I thought was normal is actually slowed down.
It's good that some were able to release optimised Pal titles though. I recall Rare being one ( I guess living in a PAL market helped them). Originally Posted by jackal27 They got Terranigma, so I'd say it all balances out.I absolutely love Terranigma, but Final Fantasies IV and VI, Ogre Battle: MotBQ, Super Mario RPG, Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, etc all collectively far outweigh it imo.
And that's just looking at 16-bit RPGs. Even in the 5th generation, where RPGs like Pokemon and FFVII pushed the genre into mainstream prominence in the West, Europe missed out on stuff like Ogre Battle 64, Final Fantasy Tactics, Dragon Quest/Warrior VII, Tales of Destiny and Eternia/Destiny II, Valkyrie Profile, Chrono Cross, Xenogears, the Tactics Ogre port and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment. If I was gaming back then (only started in 2000) and was the JRPG fanatic I am today, I would be really really pissed off.